Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 13:49:21 -0600
From: "Lamb, Douglas"  Add To Address Book
Subject: RE: how things work/retroactive dates
To: "Livingstone, Carol J" 


Yes, it is the Banner way for job records to become locked once a Pay calc
has taken place.

Therefore, in your example, if a job is added effective 8/16 (prior to Sept
CALC) at 50% FTE, then after September CALC AHR attempts to change the FTE
to 100%, it will tell us that the effective date is prior to the last PAY
date (namely 9/15 at this point) and therefore, a change would not be
allowed.

 We would have to INSERT a new job detail record, effective 9/16, apply the
100% FTE, but then we could make the PERSONNEL date be 8/20, in order to
record the date the FTE change SHOULD have been made, but wasn't.

So.. at this point, you will see TWO job detail records, the original with
both the 8/16 Effective and personnel dates, and a second record with a 9/16
effective date but an 8/20 personnel date and the different FTE.

Make sense?
Doug


 

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Carol Livingstone [mailto:livngstn@uiuc.edu] 
Sent:	Wednesday, January 21, 2004 10:41 am
To:	dougl@uillinois.edu
Subject:	how things work/retroactive dates

Doug, see the messages below. I'm working with the DS people to find a way
to figure out exactly what FTE was active on a job when pay was
calculated.  We had expected DS to freeze a copy of the job info at
paycalc; they did, but omitted some key fields like FTE.

In the old system, depts could make appt changes without changing
the effective date on an appt; Suzanne says this is not possible in
Banner.

Suzanne said that a new effective date must be added to the job when a
change is made after pay has been generated by the job. But she didn't
indicate exactly what restrictions are placed on that new date.  Must the
new date be later than the end date of the last pay period paid? Or must
it just be different from the original date?

For example, if someone has a job:

Eff date	Job FTE
8/16/2004	50%

and pay is calculated on 9/6/04 for the pay period 8/16-9/15.

Can the dept change the job FTE to 100% with an effective date of 8/20?
(yes, this may generate a pay adjustment)
Or is the earliest effective date permitted by Banner 9/16?

If the 8/20 date is possible, we still have a problem because I cannot use
the effective dated records in the EDW to see what the true percent was
associated with the original payment.

Unfortunately, we have no student employees in my department or I would
test this myself on their records.  I could try it on my own record but
you guys might get mad.


Carol Livingstone
Associate Provost and Director, Division of Management Information
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
909 S. Sixth Street (MC 484)
Champaign, IL 61820
217/333-3551


On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Pollard, Mark wrote:

> Carol, I talked with the SCT Consultant about how jobs, effective dates
and
> pay interact. Prior to a pay, the job record can be updated without a new
> effective date. After a pay, the job record must be updated with a new
> effective date that is effective after the pay. That would indicate that
> using the job detail effective date would work to identify how the job
> detail record is related to a pay. Can you try this and let me know
whether
> this solves the issue or not?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Schuelke, Suzanne
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 8:32 AM
> To: Pollard, Mark
> Cc: Bodine, Amanda; Wilson, Theresa
> Subject: RE: Case Number: 20040118_47
>
>
> Before a person has been paid on a job, it can be updated by overlaying
> information.  Once a person has been paid on a job, it is impossible to
make
> any changes on the Job Detail Form (NBRJOBS) without a new effective date.
> This applies to every field in the this table.  It all applies to NBRJBLD,
> NBREARN, and NBRWKSH (apologies if I have any letters wrong, I'm doing the
> names from memory).   NBRBJOB is a base record and it can be updated with
> changing the effective date (basically the front page of the NBAJOBS
form).
> There is no financial data or salary that can be changed on the form.
It
> sounds like your advice is right on and they have made changes on an
unpaid
> jobs.  The NBRBJOB table is the only exception.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pollard, Mark
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 8:27 AM
> To: Schuelke, Suzanne
> Cc: Bodine, Amanda; Wilson, Theresa
> Subject: FW: Case Number: 20040118_47
>
>
> Suzanne, I need a clarification. We have users that are looking at payroll
> data. They are concerned about what the person's job looked like to get
them
> paid. I directed them to look at the Job Effective Date. They brought up
> some concerns around this approach.
>
> Does the effective date on a job record have to change when you update the
> job record? After a payroll run has started, can an individual go back and
> change that record?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carol Livingstone [mailto:livngstn@uiuc.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 5:22 PM
> To: Pollard, Mark
> Cc: Clarify E-Mail Clerk; Bodine, Amanda; Arend, Nick; Schweitzer,
> Steven; Wilson, Theresa
> Subject: RE: Case Number: 20040118_47
>
>
> Mark, there is no requirement that the Banner users change the effective
> date on a record when they make a change to the job. Many, many of our
> depts are used to just changing the job without changing the effective
> date -- HR doesn't usually care as long as the paycalc is over.  This is
> why we need that posting date.
>
>
>
>
> Carol Livingstone
> Associate Provost and Director, Division of Management Information
> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> 909 S. Sixth Street (MC 484)
> Champaign, IL 61820
> 217/333-3551
>
>
> On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, Pollard, Mark wrote:
>
> > Carol, If you also use the Job Detail History Effective Date
> > (Job_Detl_Hist_Eff_Dt), it should give you which record was in effect at
> the
> > time of the payroll run.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mark
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Carol Livingstone [mailto:livngstn@uiuc.edu]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 4:52 PM
> > To: Clarify E-Mail Clerk
> > Cc: abodine@uillinois.edu; arend@uillinois.edu; mpollard@uillinois.edu;
> > sjschwei@uillinois.edu; tpwilson@uillinois.edu
> > Subject: Re: Case Number: 20040118_47
> >
> >
> > No, because that table does not have a payroll id as a key -- we need it
> > pulled out at the time of paycalc along with the other fields.
> >
> > Without date sensitivity, I cannot determine which fte was *really* in
> > effect at the time of the paycalc.  A dept could change the FTE on the
job
> > from 50% to 100% after paycalc without changing the effective date on
the
> > job record.  This would make it look like the fte had been 100% at the
> > paycalc.
> >
> >
> >
> > Carol Livingstone
> > Associate Provost and Director, Division of Management Information
> > University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> > 909 S. Sixth Street (MC 484)
> > Champaign, IL 61820
> > 217/333-3551
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, Clarify E-Mail Clerk wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > FR: mpollard
> > >
> > > Carol, Job FTE can be found on the Job Detail History Table
> > (T_JOB_DETL_HIST). It is the field Job Detail FTE (JOB_DETL_FTE). Let me
> > know if this solves your issue.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Mark Pollard
> > > 217.265.6538
> > >
> > > Forwarded:
> > >
> > > Case20040118_47 has been forwarded to Queue DS-Functional Area C.
> Please
> > take appropriate action.
> > >
> > > Case Title: Missing data in Payroll tables
> > > Case History:
> > > *** EMAIL IN 01/18/2004 12:09:38 livngstn@uiuc.edu
> > >  I'm having some trouble finding a field with the appointment (job)
> > >  percentage in any of the payroll tables.  The most likely table for
it,
> > >  T.PAYR_JOB_DETL, does not have it.  You have the job hours but not
the
> > >  FTE.  We need both because hours per pay period per FTE varies
> > >  significantly by employee group and I really don't want to have to
> figure
> > >  it out.
> > >
> > >  This field was listed in the preliminary structure we looked at
> > >  in the focus group -- on a table called Payroll Job History. I cannot
> > find
> > >  any table with that name on the final logical model, but
> T.PAYR_JOB_DETL
> > >  appears to be the name of the table most similar to the original
> proposed
> > >  Payroll Job History table.
> > >
> > >  It's really critical that we have this job appointment percentage
field
> > >  for all job records effective at any time during the pay period being
> > >  calculated.  Otherwise, we would not be able to determine the FTE for
> > that
> > >  pay period, critical for the federal and state reporting of effort
and
> > >  pay.  We must report FTE and pay for each pay period.  It would be
> > >  impossible to figure out the percent at paycalc after the fact
because
> > the
> > >  job can be changed after paycalc without changing an effective date.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  Carol Livingstone
> > >  Associate Provost and Director, Division of Management Information
> > >  University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> > >  909 S. Sixth Street (MC 484)
> > >  Champaign, IL 61820
> > >  217/333-3551
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *** NOTES 1/20/2004 10:43:27 AM cgorrell Action Type: Review
> > > I sent an email to management to see who could help locate this field.
> > >
> > >
> > > *** FORWARD 01/20/2004 11:38:41 debtate
> > > Please assist Carol Livingstone with this problem.
> > >
> > >
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